I was born here and Im tired of the attacks on the downtown area.I prefer to support my "neighbors" in the east, west and south. I only hear the complaint that all of the growth is being pushed,steered, directed and offered tax breaks by the council and mayor to the north portions of the of the city. Downtown has been ignored like the Obici properties and its time for ALL Suffolkinas to see that the ignoring stops.The northern tax payers have reaped the benefits of the downtown being ignored including the south, east and west Its time to stop complaining about the cultural arts center, the fairground projects,crime or any other project that is presented from within or from outside sources. Why wasnt there a pitch for Centerpoint to be built up north or out to the east. It would have been closer to the Port of Hampton Roads. The condition of downtown is no different than the Obici estate, its been ignored by choice and politics.Zoning is changed to appease someone else's interest not the city's.We were a city of 12,000 and now we are 80,000 + and will be growing as we should. Its time to support the city as a whole.Im sorry but the financial institutions run by some good folks are not inclined to provide funds for any small business owner in the downtown area. I know first hand, there have been some discussions with an attorney hired to speak and inquire on ones behalf.The spokesperson employed was not from Suffolk which could have been good but also bad. (Something about maybe the network) The question was why not consider up north. The reply was why? The city leaders are they so embarrassed that they can't admit they have neglected downtown or the Obici property. They cant admit nor can the previous leaders that the old city is a plight that they created. The real estate moguls cant admit they are as guilty. When was the ciy as a whole offered to any business who was considering Suffolk. The conflicts of interest there are none? None have been created? I am not against growth. It is known that the northern folks only want it for their part and want the real hub of the city to as they say "wish for it to die"
It is clear that city adminstratos over the last 15 years have the same thinking.Why not just hire someone to come in and have a controlled burn or just implode every structure. It would be much faster to kill it off.
Bigots? Look no further than Market Street and North Suffolk they are bigoted towards downtown and its residents.If I had a bussiness downtown it and others are already being boycotted. So there is nothing new other than you are promoting it. So who is the bigot now? And you question who the adult with a small mind is? Blood boiling? I will leave you and your own bigot mentality and the entire debate the following thought. "Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
From a citizen
17 comments:
Sounds like another hard case looking for a handout for downtown. Downtown has gotten more than its fair share and you complain? Just look at the millions already spent and by such poor policy! The reason that more is not given is that more was given in the recent past and to no good as we all know. We will not give up talking about the examples of this including the Hotel, SCCA, Jefferson Schools, Fairgrounds, Bank Building and the rest of the long list of utter failures that no comprise downtown!
I will not spend money in the downtown, just because it is not where I want to be. So tightenup and accept that not all Suffolk is about Downtown! Center Point was put where it was by the choice of a private company and policies that support thier decissions. Growth is going on in the North not because of some grand design, but by the push of policies that favor the developers up here. By those policies of accepting opportunity over a hand-out like downtown always demands, ahs lead to opportunity and positive growth. So That says it all.
To examine what made today's downtown, is multi-layered process over two hundred years. It was once an isolated center of commerce, rail-steamboat depot for goods and passengers, and a manufacturing hub. Nearly all of that is gone today. Very little has replaced the importance of downtown as the population migrated to the suburbs following the expanding road network. The process of decentralization away from downtown started well before Nanasemond County and Suffolk incorporated. The reason why downtown is what it is, must be placed on the politicians, and buinessmen. No realistic initiatives were inacted to attract and keep businesses in town. No effort to diversify from the core peanut, tea and government operations. A transfer of owner occupied neighborhoods to Section 8 Housing that created squalid near ghetto conditions in many sections. Crime, drugs, gangs followed driving away investors and lifetime residents.
The flawed thinking of former city manager and many still sitting on council today, was that building a waterfront marina-hotel, a cultural arts center and a new hospital would attract businesses to invest in downtown. Clearly the economic impact of these subsidized brick and mortar projects has been disappointing. In spite of decades of deteriorization at every election cycle the same faces return to the same council seat. The same appointees sit on the EDA and Planning Commission and nothing ever changes. I once operated businesses in downtown and eventually came to the conclusion after many years and meetings with my council representative that it was pointless to hang on any longer as there was no sense of urgency or concern for the welfare of downtown and my business. I am proud to be what some in town call carpet bagger. One of many that invested resources, time and effort in downtown. There is no reason for carpet baggers to return until the lifelong residents of Downtown Suffolk realize what their ignorance and apathy has created.
Has anyone noticed that Suffolk government subsidized projects in downtown compete with the private sector? Does anyone think that unfair competition drives up costs and reduces market diversity? Sounds like Obamacare and that is exactly the same thinking we have on council. Those subsidized restaurants, hotels and shops at the Hilton, SCCA and other locations are destroying downtown.
Well said and right to the point! The inability of our active citizens to realize that the voices that cling to being the "Origiinal Suffolkians" displaces the merit and work of the "Carpet Baggers" that are now the life blood of Suffolk. To have some assume that all good can only come from the embrace of what the "Old Downtowners" see as the path will insure that we only continue to lose more improvement for our community.
While I wold not say that having the Hotel, SCCA, and other things is bad; it was however a total waste of public money to invest in them and that is now clear to all. What could have been done is these poorly thought out expenditures had not been undertaken? Could we have a new College Campus where to old OBICI Hospital once stood? Could we have the means to solve some of the problems we now face in providing core services to our citizens? Surely the only answer is YES, but there are some who benefit from wasteful and misdirected spending and try very hard to justify such to one and all. To do so does not make it right nor does it in anyway get a pass just because it is supported by those who claim a higher right as somehow being the "Original Suffolkians".
So the take my leave, the comment under discussion is without merit and clearly highlights backrupt thinking, to justify bad public policy and the expenditure of our public funds. I can only hope that we have learned from the mistakes herein, and will come as a city to understand that there are areas of development that the City should never stick its nose into!
What possible reason could there be for someone from North Suffolk come to Downtown? Pay a ticket, jury duty or property taxes. That's it! What sane person would drive all the way down there when they can purchase the same things in their neighborhood or Western Branch of Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Hampton or Newport News. They have a greater selection of shopping all the while avoiding the dour, envious looks of the downtown crowd. Would any North Suffolkian feel safe parking their Bentley or Rolls Royce on North Main Street or Washington?
It appears that there are lots of tax revenues that wont be paid due to the foreclosed homes up north either. Hows that bridge coming along? Wait unitl our esteemed President puts out the order to the DOD to cut more spending and to cancel contracts. I just read in less than one minute the latest book by Obama its called Complete Knowledge of Military Strategy!
Main Entry: car·pet·bag·ger
Pronunciation: \-ˌba-gər\
Function: noun
Etymology: from their carrying all their belongings in carpetbags
Date: 1868
1 : a Northerner in the South after the American Civil War usually seeking private gain under the reconstruction governments
2 : outsider; especially : a nonresident or new resident who seeks private gain from an area often by meddling in its business or politics
Hey I've got a secret. The carpet baggers you hold in distain are paying the majority of the city's property taxes. They are from different backgrounds and livelihoods. They chose Suffolk to be their home and have had the door slammed in their face by those who have a skewed view of themselves claiming to be born and well inbred Suffolkians. Just remember what happened during the reconstruction period and don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You want to know a secret? Try some.Bite the hand that feeds me? Well thnaks for letting me know that you are the superior one. You dont provide anything to me and for me.You must be a liberal.Liberals love to relive our past shame of slavery. Are you fond of that era?
Liberals support political gerrymandering based on race. This helps keep them folks in their own neighborhoods.(North Suffolk attitude), dont hide behind it step up and say it.Its not a secret anymore. Liberals do not believe that the black man can be self-reliant.Where and when did this start? Reconstruction. Now that your racism is exposed please tell us your next secret. You are superior you pay taxes, so what. If you are so fed up with Suffolk as a city in whole. The only thing you have left other than complaining is to move or incorporate. The city as a whole can survive either way no matter what your choice is.
10:09 nobody has commented or suggested race except you. Name calling is the last resort of a lost argument or your guilt is misplaced and you don't have an understanding of the period following the War Between the States, what my Great Grandmother called; The War of Northern Incursion. Suggest at your discretion an internet search of the period to understand the earlier post.
The point being made is that Suffolk is now populated mostly by people called by ignorant individuals carpet baggers. Others call them American Citizens, Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen and Veterens. Indeed many are employees of the DOD or government employees and contractors. They chose to live in the Northern end of the city where most of the population lives today. They have and continue to pay a disporportionate percent of the city's property taxes. That's according to the City Assessors Office.
Since the North end of Suffolk is paying their way as well as others, they deserve a share of respect thus far given to Downtown. They no longer want to bend their knee to Downtowners and pay taxes for wasteful municipal monuments in Downtown. They generally do not socialize with Downtowners. They certainly don't shop or eat in Downtown and they are tired of hearing lifetime Suffolkians shove their ancestry in their faces. The arguent of "I was here first" never helped an Indian. However you are correct the North Enders have a choice, they can move or incorporate.
Now returning to the crux of the original comment, we have yet to hear from you why the Obici Family whom according to some are "carpet baggers" from Italy via Pennsylvannia, moved to North Suffolk and passed up the Utopia of Downtown.
If the City can fair so well without the north end of town, why is it that the inbreed downtowners are always a carping for our money?
Seems like a dicotomy that has no answer other than greed! We have all the shopping and venues we need, so why would we come to downtown? Others have coved that fact better than I could and it is just true and so.
Suffolk is now under the full and absoulte control of the new faces in town, aka: CarpetBaggers / New-Blood. Just look at how we have slowed spending downtown to validate that fact!
Downtown is a speed-bump that slows traffic to North Carolina and that is about it. Oh yea, it also is where Charles Par campaigns for his seat so he can vote with Mayor Johnson on everything. Thanks so much for that!
Wow!!! There is a lot of mudslinging going on here.
Whether we have lived here since birth or chosen Suffolk to plant some roots is irrelevant.
Whether we are white, black, red, yellow or plaid is irrelevant.
Whether we are rich, poor, young or old is irrelevant.
Where we live in the City is irrelevant.
Our politics and religions are irrelevant.
What IS relevant is that the only way to have Suffolk be what we want it to be is by working together. That, my friends, is the ONLY way we are going to accomplish anything. Sitting around pointing fingers and moaning about what our government hasn't done for us is leading no place fast. Maybe if we collaborate on what we think would help, we collectively can make a difference in OUR community. We could start with baby steps and see where that leads...
Sorry but the Kum Ba Yah crowd passed with the 1960s Vietnam War Era. e must be realistic We have to point fingers to get anything done. People must be held acountable that is why organizations like the United Nations have proven to be ineffctive. They are so woried about offending anyone that nothing gets done. The boy in NOKO and Iran are counting we are weak and non-responsive to their bullying. This being Thanksgiving they'll likely fire a missle or two.
You say people must be accountable and you're right. But that accountability begins with the personal responsibility to step up to the plate ourselves and make a difference.
Personal responsibility is a subjective issue. Each person has their own interpretation of what that means. Too many selfish individuals believe they are above being accountable. Government officials for example are foremost subscribers to the "me first" belief. I agree the concept of personal responsibility would work IF we lived in a perfect world. However in these challenging times we must be realistic. Until there is dialogue however heated it may be, we will never resolve the issue and only allow it to fester.
A good example of accoutability being an absolute need, is what our City Council and leaders have done over the last ten years. They have squandered tens of millions of our dollars, even while taxing us all at all time highs. Then many that want even more (and yes you do know who you are), demand that we shop in their stores and shops on Main Street only to complain that if we don't we are to be looked down upon. Seems like tolerance and acceptance has not worked-out very well so far. I agree that a well phrased complaint based on fact is of greater value that burying your head in the sand and hoping it all gets better. I want results and effective government much more than a niave plan that calls for us all to just get along at any price...
We need more people to stand and deliver their own story. We need more recognition that the best government is the smallest government to get the job done and one that takes the least from the people. When you consider that government can only spend when it takes from the people it has sway over, you understand that such taking must be done with measure and understanding that real people do ultimately pay the bills. When some demand policy or monetary favors from government, and someone else must pay, that can be very painful if not done with good purpose. Just look at the past for prime examples: The Hotel that is failing, the SCCA that always demands more money, The failed Fairgrounds Project, The Obici Hospital Site and now the Obici Home, The Birdsong Rec Center, The Jefferson School, The School System, and the list goes on and on.
Some demand that when these facts are brought up it is the past, or it is unproductive and somehow being mean. It is being stupid that we all allowed this to happen and then vote the same people back into office to do it all again.
The latest example in the news is the Obici Home, where our past City Manager, Mr. Standish now tells us all that the reason it failed was because the present Mayor has proposed the building of Condos at the site, so she can sell them. Then there is the plan for a member of the Planning Commission to tear the buildings down, so he can build a big Golf-Clubhouse on the site, for his new inside lease from the City on the glof course.
Do we have problems? YES Do we need solutions? YES Do we need people that want to just be quiet and let it happen? NOOOOO!
We need more people that will stand up and tell our leaders what is wrong and how to fix it. If it is all good, there is no complaint and enough-said. But to somehow assume that it will all be good if you just seat-down and shut up is a pipe-dream! So get off your duff and make a difference and do lodge a complaint where one is due!
Who suggested to stick our heads in the sand? I suggested we help ourselves as a greater sum of two (or more) halves. From the way I see things, the government would have to listen because then it is the citizens of Suffolk united for causes, not a motley bunch of malcontents.
I read these comments on a regular basis and am amazed that so many people of the same opinion (albeit with different perspectives) can fight so much among themselves.
You all say you want smaller government, but at every opportunity are asking what the city (or any government) is going to do for you and only seeing how decisions effect your own household (if even that much!).
When you are asked to take a stand you say you can't fight city hall. When shown that in order to make the difference you all say you wish to make you are going to have to get over the squabbling amongst yourselves you turn and attack each other.
I've noticed as I write this that I used to think of myself as a we on this site. Although I didn't always agree with everyone's opinion, I at least respected it. Now I see that I'm disassociating myself and seeing "thems" instead of "us".
Does anyone on here want to affect change? Or is this just a place to come and vent your frustration to the world? I'm good with it either way, but call it for what it is.
Always we find someone that seems to want to believe that there is a one size fits all solution to any and all questions posed. It just is not so.
Suffolk works the way it does because we all see it so differently and so many say so little when it counts. That is why we have a mayor and council that can so easily take advantage of us. Just look at how they have tunred their collective backs on our struggleing downtown and its suffering businesses. There has never been and will never be "us", it is always just "me" in Suffolk for most as we have seen in the last election for mayor. Hos stupid to run five candiates against the seating Mayor, only to watch her as an unpopular candidate win so easily. "Divide and conquer" was so easy! Until there is a full scale repacement of those on council now, there will be no change and it is stupid to assume that it is or can be different.
If you do believe that you can change things, what have you done to change it lately? Most would answer that they have their opinions, but how often have you spoken at council to put that forth? I would bet once or never as the most likely choices. So step forward and claim your prize. It is the council and decissions we now are talking so much about.
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